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	<title>Comments on: Radikal helg</title>
	<link>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/</link>
	<description>Den litterata webbloggen</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 21:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.2</generator>

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 		<title>Comment on Radikal helg by: — Gudars skymning</title>
		<link>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3417</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Dec 2005 13:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3417</guid>
					<description>P: Upphovsrättsfrågan hänvisar vi med nödvändighet till vår temporärt deligerade instans av ©, Malte Persson. 

P + Istvan: Därutöver förströr jag mig lojt över era respektive syner på bloggosfärens flytande identiteter, och anar en viss underliggande nervositet av autenticitetskaraktär. 

Inte fan har någon hänvisat till icke närvarande persons namn! Salman citerar Salman Rushdie; Salman som härav kunna förstås som ett flytande &quot;sig själv&quot;, taget förnamnet i beaktande. Eller också inte. 

Men ni, ni, mina herrar, taga bloggsfären på gammalfarbroderligt allvar, och trängta autenticitet bortanför alla eventuella pseudonymer på glid i denna tid av &quot;Gudars skymning&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>P: Upphovsrättsfrågan hänvisar vi med nödvändighet till vår temporärt deligerade instans av ©, Malte Persson. </p>
	<p>P + Istvan: Därutöver förströr jag mig lojt över era respektive syner på bloggosfärens flytande identiteter, och anar en viss underliggande nervositet av autenticitetskaraktär. </p>
	<p>Inte fan har någon hänvisat till icke närvarande persons namn! Salman citerar Salman Rushdie; Salman som härav kunna förstås som ett flytande &#034;sig själv&#034;, taget förnamnet i beaktande. Eller också inte. </p>
	<p>Men ni, ni, mina herrar, taga bloggsfären på gammalfarbroderligt allvar, och trängta autenticitet bortanför alla eventuella pseudonymer på glid i denna tid av &#034;Gudars skymning&#034;.
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 		<title>Comment on Radikal helg by: — Gud</title>
		<link>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3345</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3345</guid>
					<description>&quot;Du skall bara i yttersta nödfall uttala icke närvarande personers namn.&quot;

Jag tror bestämt att någon talar om mig här.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#034;Du skall bara i yttersta nödfall uttala icke närvarande personers namn.&#034;</p>
	<p>Jag tror bestämt att någon talar om mig här.
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 		<title>Comment on Radikal helg by: István</title>
		<link>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3340</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3340</guid>
					<description>Nämen visst. Eller som det elfte budordet lyder:

&quot;Du skall bara i yttersta nödfall uttala icke närvarande personers namn.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Nämen visst. Eller som det elfte budordet lyder:</p>
	<p>&#034;Du skall bara i yttersta nödfall uttala icke närvarande personers namn.&#034;
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 		<title>Comment on Radikal helg by: P</title>
		<link>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3337</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3337</guid>
					<description>Varför detta långa citat? Hur är det med upphovrätten? Jag har läst S. R. men jag håller inte med honom. Ett märkligt sätt att resonera som verkar vara vanligt här är att hänvisa till sajter och böcker som stöder ens sak. Som om jag inte kände till Rushdie eller alla andra saker som det länkas till.
Kom med litet egna tankar i stället för att hänvisa till en idol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Varför detta långa citat? Hur är det med upphovrätten? Jag har läst S. R. men jag håller inte med honom. Ett märkligt sätt att resonera som verkar vara vanligt här är att hänvisa till sajter och böcker som stöder ens sak. Som om jag inte kände till Rushdie eller alla andra saker som det länkas till.<br />
Kom med litet egna tankar i stället för att hänvisa till en idol.
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 		<title>Comment on Radikal helg by: SALMAN</title>
		<link>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3334</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2005 09:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3334</guid>
					<description>November 2, 2001

Yes, This Is About Islam
By SALMAN RUSHDIE
 
 
LONDON -- &quot;This isn't about Islam.&quot; The world's leaders have been repeating this mantra for weeks, partly in the virtuous hope of deterring reprisal attacks on innocent Muslims living in the West, partly because if the United States is to maintain its coalition against terror it can't afford to suggest that Islam and terrorism are in any way related.

The trouble with this necessary disclaimer is that it isn't true. If this isn't about Islam, why the worldwide Muslim demonstrations in support of Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda? Why did those 10,000 men armed with swords and axes mass on the Pakistan-Afghanistan frontier, answering some mullah's call to jihad? Why are the war's first British casualties three Muslim men who died fighting on the Taliban side?

Why the routine anti-Semitism of the much-repeated Islamic slander that &quot;the Jews&quot; arranged the hits on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, with the oddly self-deprecating explanation offered by the Taliban leadership, among others, that Muslims could not have the technological know-how or organizational sophistication to pull off such a feat? Why does Imran Khan, the Pakistani ex-sports star turned politician, demand to be shown the evidence of Al Qaeda's guilt while apparently turning a deaf ear to the self-incriminating statements of Al Qaeda's own spokesmen (there will be a rain of aircraft from the skies, Muslims in the West are warned not to live or work in tall buildings)? Why all the talk about American military infidels desecrating the sacred soil of Saudi Arabia if some sort of definition of what is sacred is not at the heart of the present discontents?

Of course this is &quot;about Islam.&quot; The question is, what exactly does that mean? After all, most religious belief isn't very theological. Most Muslims are not profound Koranic analysts. For a vast number of &quot;believing&quot; Muslim men, &quot;Islam&quot; stands, in a jumbled, half-examined way, not only for the fear of God — the fear more than the love, one suspects — but also for a cluster of customs, opinions and prejudices that include their dietary practices; the sequestration or near-sequestration of &quot;their&quot; women; the sermons delivered by their mullahs of choice; a loathing of modern society in general, riddled as it is with music, godlessness and sex; and a more particularized loathing (and fear) of the prospect that their own immediate surroundings could be taken over — &quot;Westoxicated&quot; — by the liberal Western-style way of life.

Highly motivated organizations of Muslim men (oh, for the voices of Muslim women to be heard!) have been engaged over the last 30 years or so in growing radical political movements out of this mulch of &quot;belief.&quot; These Islamists — we must get used to this word, &quot;Islamists,&quot; meaning those who are engaged upon such political projects, and learn to distinguish it from the more general and politically neutral &quot;Muslim&quot; — include the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, the blood-soaked combatants of the Islamic Salvation Front and Armed Islamic Group in Algeria, the Shiite revolutionaries of Iran, and the Taliban. Poverty is their great helper, and the fruit of their efforts is paranoia. This paranoid Islam, which blames outsiders, &quot;infidels,&quot; for all the ills of Muslim societies, and whose proposed remedy is the closing of those societies to the rival project of modernity, is presently the fastest growing version of Islam in the world.

This is not wholly to go along with Samuel Huntington's thesis about the clash of civilizations, for the simple reason that the Islamists' project is turned not only against the West and &quot;the Jews,&quot; but also against their fellow Islamists. Whatever the public rhetoric, there's little love lost between the Taliban and Iranian regimes. Dissensions between Muslim nations run at least as deep, if not deeper, than those nations' resentment of the West. Nevertheless, it would be absurd to deny that this self-exculpatory, paranoiac Islam is an ideology with widespread appeal.

Twenty years ago, when I was writing a novel about power struggles in a fictionalized Pakistan, it was already de rigueur in the Muslim world to blame all its troubles on the West and, in particular, the United States. Then as now, some of these criticisms were well-founded; no room here to rehearse the geopolitics of the cold war and America's frequently damaging foreign policy &quot;tilts,&quot; to use the Kissinger term, toward (or away from) this or that temporarily useful (or disapproved-of) nation-state, or America's role in the installation and deposition of sundry unsavory leaders and regimes. But I wanted then to ask a question that is no less important now: Suppose we say that the ills of our societies are not primarily America's fault, that we are to blame for our own failings? How would we understand them then? Might we not, by accepting our own responsibility for our problems, begin to learn to solve them for ourselves? 

Many Muslims, as well as secularist analysts with roots in the Muslim world, are beginning to ask such questions now. In recent weeks Muslim voices have everywhere been raised against the obscurantist hijacking of their religion. Yesterday's hotheads (among them Yusuf Islam, a k a Cat Stevens) are improbably repackaging themselves as today's pussycats.

An Iraqi writer quotes an earlier Iraqi satirist: &quot;The disease that is in us, is from us.&quot; A British Muslim writes, &quot;Islam has become its own enemy.&quot; A Lebanese friend, returning from Beirut, tells me that in the aftermath of the attacks on Sept. 11, public criticism of Islamism has become much more outspoken. Many commentators have spoken of the need for a Reformation in the Muslim world.

I'm reminded of the way noncommunist socialists used to distance themselves from the tyrannical socialism of the Soviets; nevertheless, the first stirrings of this counterproject are of great significance. If Islam is to be reconciled with modernity, these voices must be encouraged until they swell into a roar. Many of them speak of another Islam, their personal, private faith.

The restoration of religion to the sphere of the personal, its depoliticization, is the nettle that all Muslim societies must grasp in order to become modern. The only aspect of modernity interesting to the terrorists is technology, which they see as a weapon that can be turned on its makers. If terrorism is to be defeated, the world of Islam must take on board the secularist-humanist principles on which the modern is based, and without which Muslim countries' freedom will remain a distant dream.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>November 2, 2001</p>
	<p>Yes, This Is About Islam<br />
By SALMAN RUSHDIE</p>
	<p>LONDON &#8212; &#034;This isn&#039;t about Islam.&#034; The world&#039;s leaders have been repeating this mantra for weeks, partly in the virtuous hope of deterring reprisal attacks on innocent Muslims living in the West, partly because if the United States is to maintain its coalition against terror it can&#039;t afford to suggest that Islam and terrorism are in any way related.</p>
	<p>The trouble with this necessary disclaimer is that it isn&#039;t true. If this isn&#039;t about Islam, why the worldwide Muslim demonstrations in support of Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda? Why did those 10,000 men armed with swords and axes mass on the Pakistan-Afghanistan frontier, answering some mullah&#039;s call to jihad? Why are the war&#039;s first British casualties three Muslim men who died fighting on the Taliban side?</p>
	<p>Why the routine anti-Semitism of the much-repeated Islamic slander that &#034;the Jews&#034; arranged the hits on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, with the oddly self-deprecating explanation offered by the Taliban leadership, among others, that Muslims could not have the technological know-how or organizational sophistication to pull off such a feat? Why does Imran Khan, the Pakistani ex-sports star turned politician, demand to be shown the evidence of Al Qaeda&#039;s guilt while apparently turning a deaf ear to the self-incriminating statements of Al Qaeda&#039;s own spokesmen (there will be a rain of aircraft from the skies, Muslims in the West are warned not to live or work in tall buildings)? Why all the talk about American military infidels desecrating the sacred soil of Saudi Arabia if some sort of definition of what is sacred is not at the heart of the present discontents?</p>
	<p>Of course this is &#034;about Islam.&#034; The question is, what exactly does that mean? After all, most religious belief isn&#039;t very theological. Most Muslims are not profound Koranic analysts. For a vast number of &#034;believing&#034; Muslim men, &#034;Islam&#034; stands, in a jumbled, half-examined way, not only for the fear of God — the fear more than the love, one suspects — but also for a cluster of customs, opinions and prejudices that include their dietary practices; the sequestration or near-sequestration of &#034;their&#034; women; the sermons delivered by their mullahs of choice; a loathing of modern society in general, riddled as it is with music, godlessness and sex; and a more particularized loathing (and fear) of the prospect that their own immediate surroundings could be taken over — &#034;Westoxicated&#034; — by the liberal Western-style way of life.</p>
	<p>Highly motivated organizations of Muslim men (oh, for the voices of Muslim women to be heard!) have been engaged over the last 30 years or so in growing radical political movements out of this mulch of &#034;belief.&#034; These Islamists — we must get used to this word, &#034;Islamists,&#034; meaning those who are engaged upon such political projects, and learn to distinguish it from the more general and politically neutral &#034;Muslim&#034; — include the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, the blood-soaked combatants of the Islamic Salvation Front and Armed Islamic Group in Algeria, the Shiite revolutionaries of Iran, and the Taliban. Poverty is their great helper, and the fruit of their efforts is paranoia. This paranoid Islam, which blames outsiders, &#034;infidels,&#034; for all the ills of Muslim societies, and whose proposed remedy is the closing of those societies to the rival project of modernity, is presently the fastest growing version of Islam in the world.</p>
	<p>This is not wholly to go along with Samuel Huntington&#039;s thesis about the clash of civilizations, for the simple reason that the Islamists&#039; project is turned not only against the West and &#034;the Jews,&#034; but also against their fellow Islamists. Whatever the public rhetoric, there&#039;s little love lost between the Taliban and Iranian regimes. Dissensions between Muslim nations run at least as deep, if not deeper, than those nations&#039; resentment of the West. Nevertheless, it would be absurd to deny that this self-exculpatory, paranoiac Islam is an ideology with widespread appeal.</p>
	<p>Twenty years ago, when I was writing a novel about power struggles in a fictionalized Pakistan, it was already de rigueur in the Muslim world to blame all its troubles on the West and, in particular, the United States. Then as now, some of these criticisms were well-founded; no room here to rehearse the geopolitics of the cold war and America&#039;s frequently damaging foreign policy &#034;tilts,&#034; to use the Kissinger term, toward (or away from) this or that temporarily useful (or disapproved-of) nation-state, or America&#039;s role in the installation and deposition of sundry unsavory leaders and regimes. But I wanted then to ask a question that is no less important now: Suppose we say that the ills of our societies are not primarily America&#039;s fault, that we are to blame for our own failings? How would we understand them then? Might we not, by accepting our own responsibility for our problems, begin to learn to solve them for ourselves? </p>
	<p>Many Muslims, as well as secularist analysts with roots in the Muslim world, are beginning to ask such questions now. In recent weeks Muslim voices have everywhere been raised against the obscurantist hijacking of their religion. Yesterday&#039;s hotheads (among them Yusuf Islam, a k a Cat Stevens) are improbably repackaging themselves as today&#039;s pussycats.</p>
	<p>An Iraqi writer quotes an earlier Iraqi satirist: &#034;The disease that is in us, is from us.&#034; A British Muslim writes, &#034;Islam has become its own enemy.&#034; A Lebanese friend, returning from Beirut, tells me that in the aftermath of the attacks on Sept. 11, public criticism of Islamism has become much more outspoken. Many commentators have spoken of the need for a Reformation in the Muslim world.</p>
	<p>I&#039;m reminded of the way noncommunist socialists used to distance themselves from the tyrannical socialism of the Soviets; nevertheless, the first stirrings of this counterproject are of great significance. If Islam is to be reconciled with modernity, these voices must be encouraged until they swell into a roar. Many of them speak of another Islam, their personal, private faith.</p>
	<p>The restoration of religion to the sphere of the personal, its depoliticization, is the nettle that all Muslim societies must grasp in order to become modern. The only aspect of modernity interesting to the terrorists is technology, which they see as a weapon that can be turned on its makers. If terrorism is to be defeated, the world of Islam must take on board the secularist-humanist principles on which the modern is based, and without which Muslim countries&#039; freedom will remain a distant dream.
</p>
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 		<title>Comment on Radikal helg by: Tobbe</title>
		<link>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3330</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 23:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3330</guid>
					<description>PS Jag fördömer inte religionen i sig, men det ideologiska missbruket... - äh, nu räcker det. Tack igen! DS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>PS Jag fördömer inte religionen i sig, men det ideologiska missbruket&#8230; - äh, nu räcker det. Tack igen! DS
</p>
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 		<title>Comment on Radikal helg by: Tobbe</title>
		<link>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3329</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 23:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3329</guid>
					<description>Tack själv! Några steg närmare sanningen...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Tack själv! Några steg närmare sanningen&#8230;
</p>
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 		<title>Comment on Radikal helg by: P</title>
		<link>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3327</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 22:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3327</guid>
					<description>Jag menar: De skall tas på allvar, som fenomen. Men vad de säger förtjänar inte att tas på allvar. Det är ganska enkelt: Om en människa dödar oskyldiga i religionens namn måste det inte genast leda till att man fördömer religionen. Han kan ha fel. Jag menar att de alltid har fel. Tack för en rolig debatt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jag menar: De skall tas på allvar, som fenomen. Men vad de säger förtjänar inte att tas på allvar. Det är ganska enkelt: Om en människa dödar oskyldiga i religionens namn måste det inte genast leda till att man fördömer religionen. Han kan ha fel. Jag menar att de alltid har fel. Tack för en rolig debatt.
</p>
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 		<title>Comment on Radikal helg by: P</title>
		<link>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3326</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 22:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3326</guid>
					<description>Självklart skall de tas på allvar. De är farliga. Vi skall bry oss. Men vad de säger kan inte tas emot okritiskt. Ett exempel: Du påstår att det finns &quot;kristna&quot; bögknackare. Det är absurt. En ledtråd: Om vederbörande har en tintinsnurra ovanför huvudet skall man kanske inte tro på allt han säger. Om man går ut på stan för att knacka bögar är man ett fall för psykiatrin, inte religionpsykologin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Självklart skall de tas på allvar. De är farliga. Vi skall bry oss. Men vad de säger kan inte tas emot okritiskt. Ett exempel: Du påstår att det finns &#034;kristna&#034; bögknackare. Det är absurt. En ledtråd: Om vederbörande har en tintinsnurra ovanför huvudet skall man kanske inte tro på allt han säger. Om man går ut på stan för att knacka bögar är man ett fall för psykiatrin, inte religionpsykologin.
</p>
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 		<title>Comment on Radikal helg by: Tobbe</title>
		<link>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3325</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 22:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.apolloprojektet.com/2005/11/radikal-helg/#comment-3325</guid>
					<description>En lustiger ringdans. Vi befinner oss 'in a rut', som engländarna säger. Du påstår att de inte fins, och om de finns ska man inte lyssna på dem för de är bara galningar. Jag menar att de finns, möjligen är galningar, men lik förbannat måste tas på allvar, inte minst pga omfattningen av deras våldsdåd samt det relativt stora stöd de tyvärr (ännu) har. Vi kommer inte vidare här.

Men i länken finns ännu en intressant artikel om dessa vi enligt P inte ska bry oss om - de bombkastande, halshuggande, lemlästande byfånarna i Sydostasien denna gång.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>En lustiger ringdans. Vi befinner oss &#039;in a rut&#039;, som engländarna säger. Du påstår att de inte fins, och om de finns ska man inte lyssna på dem för de är bara galningar. Jag menar att de finns, möjligen är galningar, men lik förbannat måste tas på allvar, inte minst pga omfattningen av deras våldsdåd samt det relativt stora stöd de tyvärr (ännu) har. Vi kommer inte vidare här.</p>
	<p>Men i länken finns ännu en intressant artikel om dessa vi enligt P inte ska bry oss om - de bombkastande, halshuggande, lemlästande byfånarna i Sydostasien denna gång.
</p>
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